Americana master Jimmy LaFave was introduced as the King of Rock as he began his show at the Levitt Pavilion in Pasadena on Saturday night. Though he riffed on this label, he and his fabulous band lived up to it, delivering a wonderfully diverse set of musical styles and keeping the crowd alternately breathless during his down-tempo tunes and on their feet during the rocking ones.Before the show, I had the chance to interview him. You have quite a long history in music, and I’d like to focus on more recent recordings and changes over time.

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LaFave had been given some 20 copies of Guthrie’s lyrics by his daughter, Nora Guthrie, to set to music. One of the projects he hoped to complete before passing was a full album of Guthrie material.

Tell me how your series of albums, Trail, came about?Well, with today’s technology, a lot of people are taping shows, and people send me nearly every performance now And you do a lot of radio shows along the way So there’s all these recordings of songs, and they needed a home. So, I thought well this is kind a trail So I started putting out a series of the Trail records which are lot of live and bootleg recordings, and radio interviews, and studio outtakes. And, some of themI don’t make no secret about it, there may be someone who taped a show that was me and a guitar player and a bass player but the drummer wasn’t there.

So, I can actually just go in the studio and add it in, or if something wasn’t miked correctly, I clean ‘em up and make ‘em sound the best they can But, some of ‘em turn out fine just the way they are. Yeah, well there’s that feeling of that live performance, and it works.

Can you tell me the story behind one of your songs? “Never is a moment,” which is on both Texoma and Trail Two perhaps?That song was just one of those songs that just kind of came to me while driving. I like to write when I drive. But the song itself became a big radio hit around Texas. And then, you know how radio stations have sister stations in other states? Well, I remember one was in Virginia and they said, ‘We sent your song because you know the minute we put it on our switch board just went crazy, like it would be for the Beatles.’ And they said, ‘It happened in Virginia, where no one even knew where you were.’ And it was like, ‘What is that song!?’ People were pulling over their cars, and then they had some psychologist analyze why they were doing this. So, it was really cool.

And, I’ve done that song in a lot of weddings, and recently the cool thing is this guy in Italy named Zucchero did it. And, he’s really huge you know, he’s sung with Pavarotti and Sting and Bono. And, he did a more grandiose version. And, so it has more a second life around Europe So it’s been a kind of a magical song for me What about Ellie’s Song on TrailsOh, I haven’t played that in years.

That was inspired by a trip I took to New York city many years ago, and it was just, you know- About just the size of it and how people get swallowed up?Yeah, and a girl I met there, and it’s kind of her story I don’t even know what ever happened to her but she’s just you know laughing— Became a song?Yeah. Look out you may be next!

Laughing Let’s just talk about this woman who interviewed me in Pasadena. She had this beautiful red hair. Yeah, well you’ll have to learn more about me. And, thanks for the compliment! You are a true romantic. Your songs are like, “Dude.

Wow!” Are you really like that?I don’t know. Maybe I put it all in the songs. How does your label figure into your work life? What does that type of work bring you that is different from performing and recording your own music?Well, I get to do things like produce other people. Like I just produced a record for a guy named Hal Ketchum, who is still a very valid singer-songwriter. But at one time he was like, sold six million records. He was more of a Nashville guy but he had some top ten country hits.

So it just affords me the opportunity to get off the road for a month and just help somebody else. As long as I am doing something musical, then I am pretty happy. I don’t have to play all the time. Well it must be nice to help other people, since you’ve been down that road yourself.Yeah. So how do you pick people for your label? I’ve heard you describe it as a boutique label.Well there’s some other partners, so we all have to agree.

So it’s kinda tough. Cause usually there’s something that I really like but the other two guys don’t. So there’s really no rhyme or reason. It’s just kinda hit and miss. We just either all like it, or we don’t. Laughs Makes sense. What is your songwriting practice?

Do you, for instance, write everyday or how do you go about it?I think real songwriters are always writing. ‘Cause you’re always observing and stuff.

I kinda will sit down every now and then and go over some ideas. And with technology like it is pointing to an iPhone it’s so great, because you can just hum the melody. ‘Cause I have a lot of those–you know right when you wake up from your sleep and usually they go away so quickly, the minute you wake up.

But, sometimes I’ll catch little bits and pieces, and I do that a lot to get some of my melodies and they come to me in dreams. I sing and write Americana music, and when I tell people this they often don’t know what the heck I’m talking about.

Do you have an explanation for why this genre remains somewhat out of the limelight?Yeah, I don’t know. At least there is a category for it now in the Grammy’s. But I think part of the reason is, it would be more in the limelight if they wouldn’t a switched the concept I remember the original idea for Americana; it was like music that could be Jackson Browne and Keb Mo, but it seems like it’s gone heavily toward country, although they call it alt. But, I mean just like Jason Isbell, and it’s very Nashville centric to me.

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And then a lot of this new kind of this, you know, like the beard— Like Mumford & Sons?Yeah, the Mumford and all that stuff. How come you don’t have the You mean like the stuff that comes from Woody Guthrie? It went the money way?Yeah, yeah! It went with that thing.

Like a person who would personify Americana as a woman to me would be like Lucinda Williams. Yeah, or Neko Case?Yeah. And, they are kinda in there. But it seems like the bulk of people who get the AMA (Americana Music Awards ) are the ones who are the most Nashville, country, and there’s a lot of bands in there that I just don’t think fit Americana. But, you’re right it’s a conundrum.

Some people are running from that label. They don’t want to be called that. And other people want to be.

Because to me there’s a status to that label.Yeah. Some people want to be number one on the Americana chart. And, see I‘ve been caught talking out of church too much about it. See, the elephant in the room is that you can be the top on the Americana charts, and it just doesn’t move records to be on that chart.

I’ve seen people on that chart I’ll see somebody I know locally from Austin is number four. Then number thirty-four is Bruce Springsteen. And I’m thinking, ‘Yeah, right!? Yeah, you’re number one, and Bruce Springsteen’s number thirty-four.

And he is selling a million records and you sell maybe all year 2300 hundreds records. How can you be number one?’ So it’s a lot of smoke and mirrors. People know people?Well, only certain people can vote on that chart too. And, then if you have a record, for instance my last one, which I kinda had a bitch session with them about. They claim that—and I have the email chain of proof, you know, where my agent submitted my record, you have to submit it for their records—and they said, ‘Well, yeah it was never submitted.’ Well, it was submitted. It’s just they didn’t. You know, I don’t know Tell me more about the AMA.The Americana Music Association.

The people that report their chart, at one time it was only 70 people. Like for instance, if you had the biggest radio station in LA, and I don’t know if they’ve changed the rules, but at one time, if like you have a once a week Americana show for two hours, and you played all the Americana, you can’t vote. The whole station, year round has to be Americana. How many Americana stations are there?Yeah, there’s only about 70 stations. So, these 70 people are voting like some buddy of theirs’ record to number four and Jackson Browne is number twenty So, I kinda called them like, ‘This is kinda weird My record is not even on your chart. I know it’s being played all over the country. And then this guy here who is still playing practically an open mic is number seven.’ I said you know, ‘You really need to clean up your act.’ And I think even some of the original board members of the AMA have kinda went like, ‘This has turned into what we didn’t want it to be.’ It’s supposed to be like more eclectic with all of the styles of music, like blues, folk, jazz—that stuff was Americana.

It wasn’t just supposed to be just kinda countryish rock and this Mumford & Sons. But, I could bitch about it for days laughing. No, it’s pretty interesting. There are a lot of musicians here in Pasadena, and they like to hear the inside scoop.Yeah, and, I try to be supportive of the AMA.

But, I think they just need to be more honest about what they are and where they are at. Well things take an organic shape and sometimes become what they weren’t intended to. So do you still call yourself red dirt style?Well that’s kinda morphed too.

Red dirt has become mainly like these Texas bands which has nothing to do with Oklahoma. That’s where the dirt’s red.

It was from all that Oklahoma music that was kinda red dirt, like JJ Cale and you know all the great, like Oklahoma is a great melting pot for music and per capita that state has had a great amount of music. So if you were to describe what distinguishes the music from Oklahoma from other styles, how would you describe it?Well, it’s kinda like what I was saying Americana should be. It’s a little bit of everything. It’s people who grew up on Bob Wills and Woody Guthrie but also liked Hendrix and they kinda come into this whole stylistic thing.

But, you know, songwriting wise, the great Jimmy Webb is from Oklahoma, the one that wrote all the great songs. And, Woody Guthrie.

And, if you’re really into Nashville commercial music, I mean you have everyone from Toby Keith to Garth Brooks to Reba McEntire to Vince Gill. Those are all Okies.

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So, it’s a pretty magical musical spot But, you know red dirt. Somehow some of the red dirt bands went to Texas to make money, and a lot of them moved there. And now all the other Texas bands call themselves red dirt. The original red dirt was more eclectic. ‘Cause what they call red dirt festivals, that they have in Oklahoma now, they kinda lean more toward country—backward hats, party buffoon type music.

And, it’s like, ‘That’s not what red dirt was originally.’ Speaking of Woody Guthrie, can you tell me about the Woody Guthrie lyric project? I got to see Nora Guthrie talk about that project where she has great songwriters set lyrics that he wrote but never set. And, I know you’re one of them. Can you tell me about that?Yeah, I have about 20 of them that I am working on. So, they haven’t been released yet?No. Not yet, and it’s pretty daunting working with them. I can understand that.

Well, you’re being dragged away by folks. So, thanks so much, and have a great show, and I’m looking forward to the Woody Guthrie stuff coming out!